For pretty much as long as I can remember I've used black undercoating for my miniatures, usually just a flat black spray paint from the local DIY store. I told myself that the black was forgiving, it saved time for belts and boots, took a simple silver drybrush for swords and chainmail and armour, etc. I knew that other painters used different, lighter colours for undercoat, and several years back painted some 20mm figures that had been primed in white. I found that experience irritating, and was always seeing white bits that I had to back and paint out. It wasn't that good an experience for me. However, I always wondered, was I sacrificing brightness and vividness, since black tends to suck out some of the vibrancy of the colours painted over it.
Last week however I was reading the article by Stokes Schwartz in Issue 29 of Battlegames, "Simplify Your Painting", and one of his suggestions if to use a white undercoat. Being the open minded (impressionable? easily manipulated?) fellow that I am, I thought an experiment would be in order. I bought some Army Painter white spray primer and applied it to a small number of Warlord weird war figures that are on my painting bench.
Here's the Warlord vampire hunting Padre in white, next to a Foundry Union cavalryman in my usual flat black. My hope is to put up several comparison shots as painting continues, and to get your feedback as to what you think looks better and why.
Heya there Padre! What you might want to try with the white-primed figure is to start with a wash of burnt/raw umber (or other dark brown). If you then use quite thin colours on top, it will provide instant shading/highlighting. There is a good tutorial on this over on "The Basement Gaming Bunker".
ReplyDeleteFor any metalwork that you intend to dry-brush, go a thin black undercoat on just the metallic area.
Thank you, Tamsin, that's a very helpful set of suggestions. I have some burnt/raw umber from a basing project so I will give that a prime, and will check out Basement Gaming.
DeleteCheers,
Mike
I'll be watching this with interest as I too undercoat in either flat black or grey. Look forward to the progress.
ReplyDeleteThanks Steve. Hopefully there is something here with watching. :)
DeleteWell Padre, I whole-heartedly agree with this post. In fact, I could pretty much say that I made that speech about 8 months ago when I 'converted' to white undercoating.
ReplyDeleteBlack is indeed gloriously unforgiving and labour-saving; however I now prefer white because it is much nicer to undercoat light colours on to. I do a very quick, flat base coat onto the white, usually various browns and greens. A heavy wash of ink then gives you that same darkened recessed area as on a black model, but rather than garish black lines it leaves you with a very natural blend between the heightened and recessed areas.
It all depends on the model, I suppose. I do a lot of light browns and rag/cloth troops, so a light undercoat shows these colours up better. Certain periods in history (or sci-fi) warrant browns, especially armour etc.
Many thanks for the thoughtful and helpful comments, my dear Colonel. Pray what kind of ink wash to you use? I tried some Games Workshop black ink once for outlining and found it left a shiny residue that I didn't care for.
DeleteIt does, however I seal all my models with Humbrol matt varnish. Partly this is to protect them, but it 'equalises' the finish and makes it all nice and matt - especially important when I use a wide variety of paints and inks from different ranges.
DeleteI almost always prime in black. More out of routine or habit than any real reason. I have used a gray on my ACW Confederates and Navy blue on my ACW Yankees based on the recommendation on the Army Painter site. I was reasonably pleased. I am looking forward to your findings to see if you get any better results.
ReplyDeleteCheers, Chris. I haven't looked at the Army Painter site, I should. I like the idea of tapering your undercoat to the dominant uniform, though that necessitates buying several different kinds of undercoat. Hmmmm.
DeleteJust to confuse things...I think another option may be to undercoat a figure in a neutral tone, like a grey, thus avoiding the starkness of either black or white. A neutral tends to provide a better base to bring out colours that are placed on top- it's not contending with the colours.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with "Colonel Scipio" about the idea of blocking in over your lighter undercoat and then adding a suitable wash. A dark blue/brown wash mix does pretty well with most things- shadows in reality aren't black after all.
Sorry, hope this doesn't sound like a mini treatise- hey, at least you've generated some interest.
Cheers,
Jacksarge
Thanks, Jacksarge, I hadn't thought about how black and white might be equally stark. I certainly appreciate your interest and your joining in this discussion.
DeleteI'm a white undercoat guy. However, what I then do is outline the details in black. Very time consuming, but it has this upside: the boys already look like something interesting (Compare block painting, in which you're on to your sixth or seventh cplour before they look like anything). Painting's a breeze after that!
ReplyDeleteFor iron or steel, I have for years used a gloss black and silver mix. Not too much black, unless you are doing something like the black armour of Imperialist 30YW cuirassiers' armour. You want it to look fairly silvery. The effect when dry is of burnished iron or steel; it needs no drybrushing or highlighting. I use it for muskets, swords, bayonets, armour, even (occasionally) weathering. For AFV tracks, a little rust colour in the mix is no bad thing... The reason for my likong this method is that it doesn't look silvery from every angle, as using silver would do, but it is highly reflective and when the light hits at the right angle, the effect is - I find - impressive.
Whenever I have used black undercoating (very rare - I think I did my 30YW plastics that way, though), I have drybrushed white all over the figure before painting in order that the colours don't get completely absorbed in the black. Even then if I want a colour to stand out, I find myself painting white first and then overcoating with the colour I want.
Cheers,
Ion
Thank you my lord Archduke. That's a great idea about mixing a bit of rust into the the base colour for tank tracks, something I always struggle with. I usually end up painting tracks an unconvincingly bright metal and then totally covering it with brown to look like mud and dirt to cover up that brightness. I must try this.
DeleteThe mix of black and silver would also work for some fantasy figures I have lurking around here somewhere.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike
ReplyDeleteI use a black undercoat almost all the time these days. I like the depth of colour you get with it, and the way it tones down some of the colours used - almost the reverse of a white undercoat in fact. Black is more forgiving for my style of painting, especially with figures which have a great detail if inaccessible detail on them. I know you can get round this with an ink or diluted paint wash, but that for me is an extra stage because I don't tend to use washes.
That being said, certain painting styles really suit the white undercoat - anything for which you want a bright finish with a lighter colour palette - sci-fi, dragons, perhaps landesknechts … all very colourful chaps.
In the end, I think a lot depends on the figure casting itself, and the painter's style. Very much looking forward to seeing you try with both!
I've used all three, but I mostly white prime with a thinned out burnt umber base coat.
ReplyDeleteDepends on the sculpt, the effect I want and my mood.
Thanks Sidney. A wise painter once told me to keep experimenting with my painting. I think you raise an interesting point about the painter's style. I think too often we (or at least me, since I am, as I said above, highly impressionable) are swayed by whatever style is in vogue in the magazines or among the gods of the hobby. We forget that, like artists, we all have our own style. If everyone painted like Cezanne or played Bach like Gould, it would be a dull old world.
ReplyDelete