Monday, November 24, 2014

Weekend Roundup: Introducing Irresistible Izzy

 It was a quiet weekend at the Mad Padre’s Painting Chapel. A little bit got done, paint wise.  Some work done on magnetizing bases and intelligent storage of figures prior to the move coming at me next spring.  Perhaps the highpoint was Saturday night, when I decided that my friend Rabbitman needed some miniature and baklava therapy to shake off his funk.   Something totally silly was called for, so I grabbed my Lord of the Rings collection which has seen some exposure here lately, tried to mentally dust off my knowledge of the GW rules, and hit the road.  We had an agreeably silly game, but it did mark the debut of a hulking chap I affectionately call “Izzy”, short for “Izzy the Isengard Troll”.  Here he is leading some Uruks of the White Hand out of some woods, wanting to smash the Rohirrim and eat a horse or two.


For this action we threw most of my toys on the table, in varying conditions of paintedness (is that even a word?), Isengard vs. Rohan.  Because the Uruks had some good assets (a half dozen Berserkers, very tough to kill and each w 2 attacks) and Izzy, who is sort of Middle Earth’s equivalent of a King Tiger, we gave the good guys Aragorn (3 attacks per turn and some nifty bonuses), and several heroes of the ridder mark - Eomer, Theoden, Gamling and Eowyn on her little pony.  Rabbitman tells the story on his blog here.  He wasn’t overly impressed with the GW rules, curiously called the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game - why is it called Strategy when you have to throw dice three times to try and kill one figure?  Good question.

While the GW experience was so so, there were some high points.   When these minis are painted (alas, not all of mine were), they can be quite photogenic. Here Eowyn and two of the Royal Guard (chap on the left painted by Rabbitman, chap on right w shield showing by Yours Truly) ride down some annoying Uruk scouts.  We had some laughs thanks to Eowyn, imagining her riding behind Aragorn and desperately sticking Uruks to gain his attention and impress him.  Actually she was the Human player of the game, and did quite well, even shrugging off a paralysis spell by the Uruk shaman, who behaved quite caddishly.

 Izzy lumbers towards the Rohan battle line.  Notice how Patrick has lined up his troops behind the troll, rather like infantry advancing behind a friendly tank.  We were considering a house rule that if Izzy doesn’t score a kill on an enemy figure at least once every two turns, he eats a nearby friendly figure, just to keep his strength up.  The poor Rohan archers in the second rank banged away at him for all they were worth, but due to his tough hide and armour they needed a 6/4+ (roll of a 6 on 1d6 to wound, then a second roll of 4 or better) to cause a wound on him.  They couldn’t touch him.  Izzy was very annoyed at horse-smelling snooty men by the time he got near.


HAHAHAHA!  IZZY SMASH!  IZZY SMASH GOOD!  Gamling and his foot levy men died valiantly while the Rohan horse fought their way through another cluster of orcs to try and save King Theoden.    It wasn’t looking good for our heroes when we ran out of time and had to call it.


Mysterious elf babes watch impassively from a nearby hill.

Perhaps next time we play will see a rematch, perhaps Aragorn going head to head with Izzy.  There were a few rules I forgot until half way through the game, such as charging cavalry getting an extra dice against foot, and a chance to knock foot opponents offer and stomp on them.   Other rules, like requiring a Courage roll to charge the Fearsome (really, he’s quite cuddly when you get to know him) Izzy the Troll, I forgot completely.  I found myself agreeing with James that these rules require an awful lot of dice rolling and get quite cumbersome with over two dozen figures on the table.  I should dust off the GW War of the Ring rules for large battles and see if they are any better, or buy TFL’s Dux rules for Dark Ages and try Thomas Nissvik’s Dux Gondorum adaptation.

You wouldn’t believe how long it took to get Izzy settled down after he got all excited.

Diplomacy Game: 1905 Adjustments Phase Complete

Builds and Removals for the 1905 year are complete.

Germany is down one army (or is it the Kaiser’s Personal Guards) in Silesia.

Italy belatedly realizes the importance of maritime power and builds a fleet in Venice.

England, not having any maritime powers to fear, builds another Army to send to the continent.

Players, the deadline for the Spring 1906 Orders is this Thursday, midnight EST.



Results for Fall, 1905 (Adjustment)

General Notices:

Order resolution completed on 24-Nov-2014 at 07:36:53 EST

Order Results:

England:  Builds A lon

Germany: Removes A pru

Italy: Builds F ven

Russia no longer controls any supply centers, and has been eliminated.



Sunday, November 23, 2014

Diplomacy Game: Results for the Fall 1905 Turn

Here are the results of the Fall 1905 turn of our Diplomacy game.  

Current score:  Turkey 10; England 9; Itlay 8; France 6; Germany 1.  

Sadly, Russia is no more.   The last Russian supply centre, Warsaw, was captured by Turkey, aided by England, so I took the liberty of eliminating the Russian A War rather than making the Russian player retreat it and then disband it.  Russian player, thanks so much for participating, you had a tough run once Austria folded.    

Against all odds, Germany is still in the game with one Supply Centre, Munich, which France was unable to grab this turn.

Builds and disbands for the Adjustments Phase are shown at the very bottom of this post.

Veteran diplomacy players will recognize the endgame phase, where the amount of communication between the players drops off as the paths to victory become fewer and clearer.  However, General Blatt’s commentary will no doubt show us the subtleties and possibilities of the situation, and certainly there is scope for the two smaller fish, Italy and France, to try and engineer a falling out between Turkey and England, though for now their alliance appears fairly solid.


Moves for Fall 1905

Results for the end of the 1905 turn, including the dislodged Rus A in Warsaw.

Results for Fall, 1905 (Movement)

General Notices:

Order resolution completed on 23-Nov-2014 at 14:02:57 EST

Order Results:


 F bal Supports A kie -ber;  F den Holds
F hel Convoys A lon - kie; A kie - ber;
A lvn Supports A mos - war;

A lon - kie  Convoy path taken: lon-nth-hel-;kie.

F nth Convoys A lon -kie;  A stp Holds


F hol Holds;  A bel - ruh;

A bur - mun Bounced with sil (1 against 1). 

A pic - bel; A spa -mar Bounced with pie (1 against 1). 

 F wes - tys


A pru - ber Bounced with kie (1 against 1). 

A sil -mun Bounced with bur (1 against 1). 


A bud -rum Bounced with con (2 against 1). 

A mar -gas; A pie - mar Bounced with spa (1 against 1). 

A rom Holds; A ser Supports A bud -]rum

F tun Holds; A tyr - tri Bounced with alb (1 against 1). 


Russia: A war Holds Dislodged from mos (2 against 1). 


F aeg Convoys A smy - gre

A alb -  tri Bounced with tyr (1 against 1). 

F bla Convoys A con - rum;

A bul Supports A con - rum;

A con -rum Bounced with bud (1 against 1).

Convoy path taken: con -bla -;rum. 

F ion - adr; A mos -war;

A nap - rom Bounced with rom (1 against 1). 

Turkey: F rum - sev; A smy - gre Convoy path taken: smy-;aeg-gre. 


Supply Center Ownership:

Austria: None.

England: Berlin, Denmark, Edinburgh, Kiel, Liverpool, London, Norway, St. Petersburg, Sweden (9 total).

France: Belgium, Brest, Holland, Paris, Portugal, Spain (6 total).

Germany: Munich (1 total).I

taly: Budapest, Marseilles, Rome, Serbia, Trieste, Tunis, Venice, Vienna (8 total).

Russia: None.

Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Moscow, Naples, Rumania, Sevastopol, Smyrna, Warsaw (10 total).


England: 9 supply centers, 8 units. 1 unit may be built.

France: 6 supply centers, 6 units. No units to build or remove.

Germany: 1 supply center is, 2 units. 1 unit must be removed.

Italy: 8 supply centers, 7 units. 1 unit may be built.

Russia: No supply centers are, No units. No units to build or remove

Turkey: 10 supply centers, 10 units. No units to build or remove.



Saturday, November 22, 2014

The Daily Dissembler: Your Trusted Source For News Of An Imaginary Europe

The Daily Dissembler, Special European Gazette Issue, September 15, 1905

 We make sense of a complicated, far-off world so you, dear reader, can enjoy the Gilded Age.

A Note to Our Readers

In the interests of our readers, and that we may present the most accurate possible picture of the extraordinary events in Europe, our Editorial Board has decided to print the following extra

ordinary communication from our reporter, Mr. Ernest Harrington, even while we are awaiting police reports on the veracity of the strange, and possibly momentous, events he describes.

My Ordeal: Four Days in a Fishing Smack and a Surprise Interview

From Our Late Roman Correspondent, Ernest Harrington

It was the day after my exclusive report on Marshal de Graspi’s attempt to seize the Spear of Destiny that my travails began.  I had spent the evening in one of Rome’s seediest meeting places waiting for a rendezvous with my Vatican source, but when the monsignor failed to show up I returned to my office.  At some stage my cordial must have been drugged, as I found myself becoming insensible.

 When I awoke I was in a small, confined space.  From the heaving movement and prevailing stink of fish, I deduced I was in one of the small vessels that ply Mediterranean waters.  After a few hours a crew-member appeared; he refused to answer my demands to know what was happening, merely tossing me a bowl of thin fish broth.  How I wish he was the only member of that gang I met!  Over the next few days I was beaten and roughly questioned about my journalistic activities and informants.

"I deduced I was in one of the small vessels that ply Mediterranean waters"

On the fourth day, we reached shore and I bundled into the back of a van.  I was delivered to a large villa, where I was doused with a bucket of water, given some clean clothes.  After a long wait, during which I feared I was about to be summarily executed, I was brought into the presence of no less that Marshal de Graspi himself!

Gone was the dandy whose dapper figure had bewitched the matrons of Boston.  He appeared not to have slept in days, his skin was sallow, there were large bags under his eyes and his famous whiskers were un-waxed.  Yet, as he spoke, a fire burned in his blue eyes.  

 He surprised me by apologising for my detention: it was necessary, he explained, for reasons of state security.  He had learned that Italy had been betrayed by traitors within the political and military classes (he spent a good ten minutes on a diatribe against ‘Turkish practices’ in the Admiralty).  Before retiring to a place of safety in the country, King Victor Emanuel, had commissioned de Graspi to personal government of the country.  He had no recourse but to cleanse the Augean Stables and take on the burden of leadership.  Accordingly, parliament had been suspended and the military and ministries were now in the hands of ‘trusted patriots’.  Pre-emptive strikes had been made against France and Turkey (“barely in time, for the sacred ground of Italy is now tainted by the invader’s foot”).

It was here, that de Graspi’s frightening obsessions became clear.  This was all part of the New Italy’s destiny, he declaimed.  Now the Spear of Longinus has been found in a Hapsburg treasury, it only remained to recover the True Cross from Constantinople and seize the Lost Priory from the French.  Much mysticism followed, which became more confusing as he went on.  It was only after stating the end goal of liberating the Rosslyn Chapel from the Protestants, that he finished his oration, sinking to his chair exhausted.  My role, apparently, was to be de Graspi’s voice in America.  This I naturally refused.

 And that, dear readers, is why when the authorities raided a certain Marseilles house of ill-repute I was found naked and bound in the cellar.  The presence of a carpet bag containing a large amount of currency and files containing incriminating material on a number of prominent Italian and French politicians I can only put down to an attempt to discredit both me and them.

 [Note to Ed - Bail will be sent by a Special Military Tribunal on Thursday.]

My Journey To Paris

Story filed by the Daily Dissember’s own Miss Amelia Roosevelt, Intrepid Girl Reporter and niece of the Vice President.

My readers will recall that my last report was filed from a woods in the middle of Germany, where Kaiser Wilhelm was conducting his quixotic defence of his realm.   Upon leaving  the Imperial presence, I made my way to Berlin, which I found to be a scene of total anarchy.   As in Vienna, parts of the city were engulfed in conflict.   Worker’s committees, inspired by the revolutionary writings of Mr. Karl Marx, and inspired by similar uprisings in Russia and Austria, had raised their red banners of revolt.   From my hotel I could hear the sounds of artillery in the working class neighbourhood of Prenzlauer Berg, as loyal German troops, including the Kaiser’s own Foot Guards, fought with the Sparticists, as the revolutionaries call themselves.  The situation become further confused as an English army, advancing from the west, attempted to enter the city.   With much of the Charlottenburg district in flames, and the American Embassy cut off by the fighting, I was able to use my schoolgirl German to assist a group of Benedictine sisters evacuating their orphans.  We were fortunate in that our white flags and the Sister’s habits allowed us to pass between the German and English lines, and the British troops, being perfect gentlemen, allowed us to proceed towards France.  I learned the words of many German children’s songs before I left my new friends in Soissons and took the train for Paris.

Fighting in the streets of Berlin, as seen from near my hotel.

I confess that I expected to find refuge and tranquility in the City of Light, but found the city very tense.   Following the news of the Fall of Marseilles, it seemed that the French Government had been forced to disband an army that had raised recently in the Paris region.   The streets were still crowded with recently dismissed soldiers, some of whom were drunk and others demanding arrears in their pay.    Heavily armed gendarmes kept a tense eye on the streets.   Patriotic crowds denounced the treason and incompetence of the French officials and generals who, they claimed, had allowed the Italians to invade.  I was nearly caught in a riot, and my dress was badly torn by a coarse soldier, but I found myself hailed by a friend, the Comtesse Miley de Cyrus, whom I had known at Bryn Mawr.  The Comtesse took me into her town car and sheltered me in her palatial town home.   I asked her if she knew the position of the French government on the current situation.  “Ma cherie!”, she laughed, “I know ALL their favourite positions.”  I confess that remark went over my head.
With the assistance of the Comtesse, I was able to secure an appointment at the Palais de l’Élysée with the French President, who charmingly asked me to call him Emile.   I called him Mr. President.   No sooner did the interview start than I regretted having accepted the dress that the Comtesse had leant me, which was rather revealing in the French manner.  My first question was about how the entire world world was shocked by the fall of Marseilles to the Italians.   Have you taken steps to punish the French officials and generals who let this happen?

"No, of course not", he replied suavely.  "This is no an occupation, it is a regrouping of troops for the coming attack on the Turk. Our alliance is strong."
This remark took me aback, as  I was under the impression France and Italy were at war., and that Italian troops were in fact in Marseiiled.  I asked him, Do you think that Italy’s attack came because France’s passive foreign policy made it look weak?
Tsk, tsk, he said, as if I was a somewhat dim schoolgirl, a fairly common reaction when heads of state speak to me.  "As I said, ma cherie, Italy did not attack us, we have simply prepared a safe marshsalling area for the Italian troops in preparation for the coming war."

I asked, Do you trust England not to attack you from the North?

The President waved a hand as if to dismiss the question.  "Our alliance with England is as strong as ever."

I asked him about France’s ambitions given the German collapse.  Does France want a piece of Germany, specifically Ruhr and Munich?

The President smiled charmingly.   "We would of course not intrude on the territory of our neighbour Germany unless invited."

So, I asked, Is it true that France has allied with Turkey?

The smile grew wider.  "Italy and Turkey are at war. Italy is our ally. Do the math, Ms Roosevelt."

With that, an aide suavely informed me that the interview was over, but that I was invited to share the President’s box at the opera that evening.   While the temptation to get a more extensive interview was strong, I plead my exhaustion from my recent travels.   Upon returning to the Comtesse’s townhouse, I discovered an embossed letter from the Turkish Embassy, inviting me to a dinner party where I learned that the Sultan was most interested in meeting me.   I am currently arranging travel to Constantionople and hope to report on that visit in my next piece.

Insightful commentary on the European situation by General Sir Erasmus Blatt (ret), geo-political and military correspondent for the Rioters News Agency, on contract to the Daily Dissembler.

Stirring the Pot...

A commentary by General Sir Erasmus Blatt, geo-political and military correspondent for the Rioters News Agency.

It was subsequent to the emergence of newly commissioned fleets and armies throughout war-torn europe that this writer perceived that mighty Turkey might well have outgrown its strength. Powerful at sea, the Porte appeared to lack solidity on land. Small wonder the hasty commissioning of three new armies.

But there was nothing to be done about the fall of Serbia to Italian arms, not in 1905 at any rate. On the other hand, the military career of General Walid Pasha, commanding in chief the invasion of Italy, may well be coming to an abrupt and possibly fatal end. The strike for Rome had to be over-ambitious. But a landing in Apulia was not only assured, but would have placed Rome in a very parlous case come the Autumn.

The Sultan can count himself lucky his alliance with England is holding firm, for his army in Moscow is far from any possible support from his own forces. So with the vicissitudes of its fortunes during the opening months of 1905, Turkey remains in a powerful position, and may well surge back later in the year.

Italy, meanwhile, continues form success to success, but for the loss of Naples. That loss, however, bids fair to outweigh the gains. Had the Turkish Army in Naples supported the Apulia landing this spring, Rome was doomed. French pressure would have recovered Marseille, and the Capital of Western Christendom would have gone the way of the Eastern, never to be recovered. The 'Miracle of Rome': perhaps it was the earnest prayers of Pius X that kept the Turk from the door. I shouldn't wonder if in less than 50 years' time he receives his canonization from the Vatican.

But for how long can Italy survive the attentions of France and Turkey both? Powerful as is the Peninsular Kingdom, she may be able to hold out for a long time. But the eventual outcome can surely be in no doubt.

This despite the unhappy situation in which the Republic finds itself: its Mediterranean fleet orphaned, and the resources as yet unavailable to wrest back its sole entree to the Mediterranean at Marseille. The strike at Tunis can only have been by arrangement with Turkey. Methinks the interests of France and Turkey both might have been better served had the French fleet moved into the Gulf of Lyons. Marseille would surely have fallen in the Fall season; and the Italian fleet in Tunis would have been placed in a terrible quandary about whether to stay in port or venture forth into the Tyrrhenian Sea. Imagine had the Turkish landed a second army in the heel of Italy. The Sultan's fleets would have been released to challenge the Italian fleet off the coast of Sicily at that, and Rome must have fallen along with Marseille. Italy has been given a reprieve. What can she make of it during the waning of the year? 

Meanwhile in the North, England is having things all its own way. The Czar in Warsaw is lamenting his lost Imperium; the Kaiser is in little better case. Soon the newly crowned King of England will count himself master of the entire Baltic littoral as well as the Arctic. Astonishing the progress made by the Island Kingdom.

It would be a bold prophet, withal, who could predict any other outcome but the division of Europe between the powers most accustomed to imperialism: Turkey and England. At that, it might well come down to a final showdown between Albion and Anatolia.

15 July, 1905

Friday, November 21, 2014

A Sweet Pulp Ride

Two posts in one day!   Here’s the other project I got off the workbench this week. the Tamiya 1/48 scale Citroën Traction 11CV I bought for my Weird War Two project.   I haven’t made a model in this scale for quite a while, and I haven’t put together a civilian car since I don’t know when.   It was a fairly simple model to assemble, with very clean parts.
Somewhere on a rural road in France, an unlikely pair meet.   Who summoned whom to this rendezvous?   Who is betraying whom?  I realize there’s a difference between 1/48 and 1/52 scale but the vehicle seems to work with the Bob Murch figures.

Once again I tried some pigment, thinking a muddy, hard-used look would be better than a nice clean vehicle straight from the car wash.

I love the grille on the front.   Maybe I should have dirtied it up a bit.

 More mud.   Too much mud?   Not enough?   I never know.   

Now, if I could only find one of these in 20mm.

These figures bring my 2014 totals to:
28mm Mounted: 13, 28mm Foot: 55, 28mm Artillery: 2; 28mm Terrain Pieces: 9; 28mm Vehicles: 1
20mm Foot: 33, 20mm Artillery: 2, 20mm Vehicles: 2, 20mm Terrain Pieces: 2
15mm Vehicles: 5, 15mm Foot: 26, 15mm Terrain Pieces: 3
6mm Foot:  120, 6mm vehicles: 4, 6mm Terrain Pieces: 2
Kilometres Run: 1,041

Heroes of Rohan, or, Will the Horse Survive?

I moved two projects off the painting bench this week (I’ll save the other one for a subsequent post).   I’m trying to finish off painted figures and refurbish some old ones before the Analogue Hobbies Challenge starts (again, more in a subsequent post)  Here are the three mins (L to R, Eowyn, Gamling, Theoden) from the apparently now defunct Heroes of Helms Deep boxed set.   Since these were all partially painted previously, I’m only going to give myself credit for painting 1 28mm foot figure for the three of them.

Here they are with their backs to a wood, and apparently without their horses.   That pike in the foreground suggests things can’t be good for our heroes.

Oh dear.   A horde of nasty Uruks charge up hill towards our three heroes.   While the Rohirrim seem imperilled, I wonder if the whole GW LOTR range may be in greater danger.  I made a very infrequent trip to the GW webstore and noticed that the whole Tolkien line of licensed products is now listed under the single title/category of “The Hobbit”.  It looks like most of the models from the original LOTR series are still in stock, but I noticed some absences.  With the original three films now a decade in the past, I suspect GW accountants will pull the plug on the range when sales fall to a certain point.  Since they all seem to have vanished from retail, it looks like the GW Webstore or EBay will have to be my sources if I want more of these guys.  It also appears that GW has withdrawn some of the LOTR rules books, such as the War of the Ring book for large-scale battles.

Hmmm, those Uruks need some work as well.  At least some sort of nasty grey wasteland texture on the slotta bases, or should it be green, to show the tender shoots of Middle Earth’s forests trampled under the iron-shod sandals of Isengard?

Bring it on! cries Theoden.  "Those accountant pukes won’t discontinue the Riders of Rohan, not as long as my sword is held high" (which is not the best defensive stance for an oncoming pikeman, but who am I to second guess King Theoden?)

Some versions of the Gamling sculpt have him holding a banner, which frankly I’d prefer.  In this version his left hand (awkwardly cropped from the shot) is sticking out empty handed, which makes him look a bit like a fencer or a back alley knife fighter.  Maybe I should find him a shield?  I like the Eowyn casting.  There is one from the third film (the scene with the Nazgul on the Pelennor Fields) with her wearing armour which would be nice to have as well, but I like this one.  I should find some Viking shield maidens (maybe from the Wargames Foundry line) to keep her company.

These figures bring my 2014 totals to:
28mm Mounted: 13, 28mm Foot: 55, 28mm Artillery: 2; 28mm terrain pieces: 9.
20mm Foot: 33, 20mm Artillery: 2, 20mm Vehicles: 2, 20mm Terrain Pieces: 2
15mm Vehicles: 5, 15mm Foot: 26, 15mm Terrain Pieces: 3
6mm Foot:  120, 6mm vehicles: 4, 6mm Terrain Pieces: 2
Kilometres Run: 1,041

Monday, November 17, 2014

Diplomacy Game Spring 1905 Results

Here are the results of the Diplomacy Game Spring 1905 Turn.  As one player put it, Europe’s agony continues.  Several moves failed this turn,.  Perhaps the only success was the Italian push south into the Balkans, taking Serbia from Turkey.  However, powerful Turkish armies are massing and the Turks are knocking on the gates of Rome.  The Kaiser  still lays claim to his war-ravaged capital, in the spirit of Frederick the Great.  Rumours have it that the German press is now instructed to refer to him as “Wilheim der Grosse”.

The Turkish A in Ser must retreat to either Gre or Alb.  BREAKING NEWS  - TURKISH A SER RETREATS TO ALB.


Moves: several cruises got cancelled.


Results for Spring, 1905 (Movement)

General Notices:
Order resolution completed on 17-Nov-2014 at 06:08:58 EST

Order Results:


F bal Supports A kie - ber; F den Holds 
F hel Convoys A lon -kie;

A kie - ber; Bounced with pru (2 against 1). 

A lon - kie Failed because England: A kie - ber failed.

Convoy path taken: lon - nth - hel - kie. 

F nth Convoys A lon -kie;  A nwy - stp;  A stp -  lvn


A bel Holds;  A bur Supports A spa - mar; F hol Holds

A pic Holds; A spa - mar Bounced with mar (2 against 2). 

F wes - tun Bounced with tun (1 against 1). 


Germany: A pru - ber  Bounced with kie (2 against 1). 

 A sil Supports A pru - ber



A bud Supports A tri -ser; A mar Holds

A pie Supports A mar; A rom - api Bounced with smy (1 against 1). 

A tri -serI F tun Holds; A vie - tyr


 A war Holds


 F aeg Convoys A smy - apu; A ank - con
A con - bul; F ion Convoys A smy -apu

A mos Supports A stp -lvn;

A nap - rom Failed because Italy: A rom - apu failed. 

F rum Holds

A ser - tri Bounced with tri (1 against 1). Dislodged from tri (2 against 1). 

 F sev - bla; A smy - apu Bounced with rom (1 against 1).

Convoy path taken: smy-aeg-ion-apu. 


Valid Retreat Paths For Turkish A Dislodged from Ser: Gre or Alb



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